Mark Kelly and others reminded Trump last week that the military is not obliged to follow illegal orders in violation of the Constitution. Trump initial response was that Kelly and company could be executed for treason. Trump apparently was convinced to tamper down that threat, but he can't completely restrain himself. This weekend he reduced his death threat to jail.
The real threat to America is Trump's inability to measure his words in a presidential fashion. Despite previously being president, he thinks he can say and tweet whatever pops into his head, with no deliberation.
Attacking Kelly was like his profoundly ignorant remark about John McCain in 2015. Although Kelly did not spend six years in a North Vietnam prison camp like McCain, he did fly 39 combat missions over Iraq before becoming an astronaut. Yes, Trump is Commander and Chief, but that title comes with a responsibility which is lost on him.
Trump sycophant Defense Secretary Hegseth has the Pentagon reviewing if court martial charges should be brought against Kelly. I don't know if Mark Kelly has any presidential ambitions for 2028, but if he does, Hegseth just gave Kelly a gift.
I'm not here to be polite or popular
While officers can resign if they believe orders are unlawful, others will likely suffer greatly for any attempt to disobey orders. Those poor noncoms will suffer for some politicians political maneuvering. Kelly is a senator why don't he introduce legislation to bring war back under the authority of the senate. As a senator he should use his power to change through the process.
ReplyDeleteYou do not directly disobey an order. Period.
DeleteIf you have doubts about the legality of an order you go to the Staff Judge Advocates office, and make your case there to one of the attorneys. Only on the advice of legal counsel do you formally question the legality of an order.
You are going down a perilous path otherwise.
Kelly’s video was designed to undermine the President, without any basis and without any specific examples. It was foolish, dangerous, and unbecoming of a US Senator.
ReplyDeleteOver the weekend, one of his treasonous co-conspirators admitted they couldn’t give even ONE example of an unlawful order that Trump had given.
Kelly is a political hack, but I’m sure that his actions will play well with the socialist base of the democrat party. They will also be well received by his allies in Bejing and Moscow.
The issue is that the president is in your chain of command, however the president is not your direct commander. There are many intermediate levels of command between your supervisor, whomever that is, and the president. Are you willing, as a lieutenant or a captain, or a staff seargeant, to question an order and go though the legal steps to challenge it.
DeleteThere is also the question of if the order is for you to kill a civilian, or a military combatant. Drug dealers are civilians, they are not military members engaging in military activities. Trump is crossing a line here between the military engaging in civilian law enforcemennt which is very unclear.
This is not a case where a military member is told to take that enemy position on a battlefield. This is when a military members is told by the president to engage in law enforcement, civilian law enforcement without a declaration of war of some type.
If I were a military member, I want to be sure that I am engaging in a legal military activity before killing a civilian in a law enforcement activity. That is where the problem is.
Blowing up “drug boats” without providing any evidence is literally murder.
DeleteRun off and fuck your self dimwit.
Deletemj adams
anon@7:08: Blowing up those drug boats in the Caribbean isn't a proud moment in our military history. Nobody. even knows why we're beating the war drums against Venezuela. Trump has the photo opts with Putin, not Kelly. But all this aside, we'll see what the public thinks in the midterms.
ReplyDeleteThat is where the issue is here. Is Trump acting within the law as President to order the military to kill civilians ? Where is the legal authority for him to kill drug dealers ? Is this a law enforcement activity ? or is this a military activity?
DeleteNone of that is clear. If this is a law enforcement activity, we have the DEA to deal with the drug dealers. If this is a military activity, is there a congressional authority to use the military ?
That is why there is confusion because the Secratary of Defense is a civilian advisor to the President, he is NOT in the chain of command of the military. The secratary of defense can not issue military orders. In Vietnam, there was the Gulf of Tonkin resolution; Desert Storm there was a congressional authorization for use of force, same in Afghanistan and the Iraq invasion of 2003. Trump has no congressional authorization to use the military against Venesulean drug dealers.
Trump can not use the military as his personal security force.
Trent - Once again you show that anti-Trumpers know so much that isn’t so. Instead of debunking your statement(s) point-by-point, I’ll deal with the simplest one.
DeleteThe Secretary of Defense IS absolutely in the military chain of command. Anyone who has served knows this.
The Secretary of Defense is the primary advisor to the president on military matters, is appointed by the president himself, and is the second in the chain of command of the military.
anon@1:19: His name is Brent, not Trent. Furthermore his facebook page confirms that he has served, and served all over the world for many years.
DeleteWell, I guess BRENT missed the class in basic training on the chain of command. I guess he never realized who he reported to.
DeleteApparently a 30-second search on the internet is beyond his current ability also.
anon@2:10: a google search does seem to indicate that the defense secretary is in the chain. However, if the attacks on the civilian boats are legal is above the scope of this blog.
DeleteI would note that neither Kelly nor any of his cohorts stated that the attacks on narco-terrorists were illegal, nor has Kelly offered any legislation to try and prohibit such strikes. Nor has he filed any lawsuits to stop the strikes.
DeleteWhat Kelly did was a political stunt designed to sow dissension in the ranks of the military and is disgusting.
It is not the first time that the democrats have tried to use the military for political purposes, and I doubt it will be the last.
The toothless War Powers Act has been ignored since its inception. Toothless. Presidents have taken dozens of actions in defense of the country...as they see it. Obama actually assassinated an US citizen overseas without a peep from Kelly, or his wife who was a congresswoman at the time. With foreign nations killing hundreds of thousands of Americans yearly with their 'invasion' with drugs, makes Trumps action a defense of the nation. He should and will keep the appropriate Committees informed as required.
DeleteBlow up every drug boat on the high seas.
ReplyDeleteI guess the plan is to get people used to executing people off shore in "drug boats" without presented evidence or a trial so it won't be as shocking when it begins to happen within our own borders. Of course there will be those who say: "yeah, great idea!", right up until the point when a government execution squad show up at their door (for drug enforcement, insurrection,...whatever).
ReplyDeleteThe cartels just slaughtered 28 people at a race track in northern Mexico.
DeleteTell us more about due process.
It would take a hefty volume to catalog all the reasons why the Orange Menace is an existential threat to democracy in this country and a threat to peace and prosperity in the world. He must be stopped by any combination of tactics and strategies necessary.
ReplyDeleteThis can not be stated loudly or clearly enough.
Thank you for your continued contributions, Mike.
anon@12:05: Trump should be restrained by the lawful means within our Constitution. Furthermore, Congress should define and fortify the gray areas that Trump is taking advantage of, to limit him and future presidents from such exploitation.
ReplyDeleteThe approval rating of Congress is somewhere around 22%. It’s the best government money can buy.
ReplyDeleteGood luck.
The problem with the current Congress asserting its lawful responsibility or the Cabinet officers theirs under the 25thAmendment is that they are scared of being primaried or hassled with law suits and prosecution by the out of control President.Four years from now Trump is not going to be remembered as Saint Trump like Ronald Reagan, rather he is going to be like Herbert Hoover and the Bushes…… never mentioned by Republicans again.
ReplyDeleteTrump has completely reinvented the Republican Party as the party of working people. Who could have imagined that an authentic populist would emerge as a billionaire from Queens? The elite establishment Republicans are gone forever.
DeleteBummer for you.
Yes, the entirety of the MSM and the International Global Monetary system has their collective panties all in a bunch.
Imagine the temerity of actually wanting to make America great again!
How absolutely unacceptable.
He must be stopped!!!
The problem with the current Congress is that they are totally incompetent, bought and sold, fools, knaves and corporate toads.
DeleteAnyone looking to Congress for any rational solutions is utterly delusional.
Kelly is the only one of the 6 plotters who will face this directly. He needs to be very nervous.
ReplyDeleteUniform Code of Military Justice -
Amendments
§2387. Activities affecting armed forces generally (a) Whoever, with intent to interfere with, impair, or influence the loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States:
(1) advises, counsels, urges, or in any manner causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United States; or
(2) distributes or attempts to distribute any written or printed matter which advises, counsels, or urges insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the military or naval forces of the United States-
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
(b) For the purposes of this section, the term “military or naval forces of the United States” includes the Army of the United States, the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Navy Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, and Coast Guard Reserve of the United States; and, when any merchant vessel is commissioned in the Navy or is in the service of the Army or the Navy, includes the master, officers, and crew of such vessel.
There are a number of issues that need to be considered in this discussion. First, drugs kill over 100,000 Americans every year. Is the importing them know that is the result somehting that needs to be considered as an act of war or something requiring just “law enforcement”? If it is the latter, when do you determine if that approach is not working and that a more drastic one is required.
ReplyDeleteSecond, does the drug trade prop up the Madura regime and allow it to continue to be a conduit for terrorist active sponsored by Iran?
(I encourage folks to read the recent Spectator article for more on this). And if that is the case, does it require a military response ?
To me, these are the questions that should be asked and debated and the place for that to happen is the U.S. Congress. I other words, I agree with the first post and Congress needs to reclaim its Constitutional authority when it comes to declaring war.
I hope you understand our current Congress, both parties, is seriously compromised. For those, the goal is self-serving and for preservation through re-election. People like this do not put the betterment of ALL citizens in highest priority,
DeleteThe majority of this Congress wants no part of Donald Trump. To them, Donald Trump is the gateway to various revelations they would rather not have come out. Corruption in government is a huge problem. In this regard, Trump is our SOLUTION, not our problem.
anon@3:54: Although I might seem like a newly minted Democrat to you, I assure you that I'm not. As an aged independent conservative, I can see nobody but Republican partisans not offended by one Trump policy or another. But worse for you, all the polling shows poorly for Republicans in the midterms. Apparently, America doesn't find Trump the SOLUTION.
DeleteAh, I only claimed Trump is MY solution to help eradicate corruption in Congress. I also do not rely on political polls for knowledge. Polls are EASY to manipulate in any direction.
Deleteanon@2:50: So many comments submitted to this blog mention Democrats doing this or that. Very tiring.
ReplyDeleteDean@3:19: Refreshing to see a signed comment. I agree that there are multiple issues that Congress should be taking up. I'd rather see the DEA and Coast Guard built up than assign the military (legally or not) Using the military seems like a slippery slope.
Dean - I do believe that there needs to be (or needed to be) a change in approach to the drug war. As you note, the number of deaths are staggering and (to me) unacceptable. Add to that the toll on those who become addicted, the toll on a society that pays to rehabilitate or provide medical care for them, and the toll on the families of those addicted or dead, and it’s a problem that can no longer be ignored or left to law enforcement alone.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with the military being involved with stopping the drug trade outside of our borders and law enforcement dealing with the battle within.
I also have no problem with Congress weighing in on the issue, and would hope that they would support the measures that the President is currently using. Unfortunately, most of the republicans are too worried about the politics of the issue to take a stand, and most of the democrats only want to oppose whatever the president is doing.
I suspect that most in Congress are actually fine with the president taking the political heat while solving the problem. Still, many will continue to snipe from the sidelines without actually taking real action that could end up hurting them politically. Such is the way of the politician.
anon@3:44: You want the politicians to take a position, but only the position you like! Mark Kelly took a position and now you want him court martialed (last week Trump wanted him executed)
ReplyDelete3:44 here.
DeleteMy post was a response to Dean Browning’s comment and was about the fact that politicians in both parties AREN’T taking a position. Even Kelly didn’t say what orders (if any) he actually considers to be unlawful. I also made no mention of him being court-martialed, although I have no problem if he is.
That is the process for members of the military (even retired ones) and is the military equivalent of a court hearing for those accused of violating the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). If Kelly did nothing wrong, he should have nothing to worry about being judged by a panel of his military peers.
Given all the talk of blowing up drug dealers and invading countries to stop the importation of drugs to this country, it's astounding that the current administration is so actively demolishing programs to TREAT and STUDY drug addiction. Our citizens are creating the market for drug dealers. Googling the topic of Trump's destruction of research in this area, here is an example of what you find:
ReplyDelete-- In 2025, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) under Trump announced the revocation of roughly $11.4 billion in previously allocated grants tied to addiction, mental health, and other public health programs.
-- The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) — the main federal agency responsible for substance use disorder (SUD) treatment and prevention — has been drastically downsized: its staff reportedly dropped by more than half.
SAMHSA reportedly terminated about $1.7 billion in block grants to state health departments and cut roughly $350 million in addiction and overdose-prevention funding.
--The Trump administration proposed deep cuts to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), potentially reducing its budget by as much as 40% and consolidating multiple institutes into a smaller number of centers. According to advocacy groups, as much as $588 million in NIH drug- and addiction-related research grants were cut, and more than 1,200 research jobs reportedly lost.
I spent over three decades professionally dedicated to the prevention of the abuse of ATOD, not including the years I spent in the treatment field, as a professional, 40, 50 hour a week, working on the local, regional and national level. My career ended with 17 plus years as the Manager for Community Organizing in the Department of Community Health and Health Studies at a major regional health network.
DeleteIf anyone on this thread has more creds in the field step right up.
I totally support President Donald Trump’s specific War on Drugs.
Annon @4:05
DeleteYou are not old enough to have any personal experience with drug interdiction or prevention before the Biden years, demand or supply side reduction.
You have no experience to share.
You have some command of google and a partisans commitment to have a knee jerk reaction to everything Trump.
At 4:05
DeleteYou are a fraud who doesn’t know squat about drug demand reduction, supply side reduction, addiction treatment, primary, secondary or tertiary tactics or strategies.
You don’t deserve to receive a thoughtful response.
You haven’t labored one day in the field.
mj adams
MM
DeleteWHY PROTECT KNOW NOTHINGS?
Where’s the ROI?
MM
DeleteYou are hemorrhaging credibility .
I neglected to add my name to the above comment.
ReplyDeletemj adams
McCain never saw an opportunity for war that he didn’t support.
ReplyDeleteMM never had a single issue with the US military during the 20 of abject failure and continuous lies in Afghanistan, up to and including the Taliban victory parade and the slaughter of 13 young Americans at the Abby Gate and the drone murder of an innocent family in retribution.
Okay.
ReplyDeleteCool.
The war in Iraq.
That was a real winning foreign policy adventure. Who wouldn’t want that on their resume?
The drug epidemic is a domestic issue first, it is national health issue and should be addressed starting in grade school. it needs a massive education effort. The studies of early use of marihuana are now showing evidence of serious problems particularly for those who are emotionally immature, they may never reach their full potential.
ReplyDeleteAt the same time drug use is still normalized by Hollywood, most likely by many in education and often legalized with the hope of new revenues.
Then we accuse foreigners for fulfilling the huge market that exists.
It is also interesting that while the Tailband ruled Afghanistan the opium market was almost eradicated, but when under U.S. control it thrived to new heights. Now the Tailband is again eradicating this crop and the EU is complaining, it is causing an increase use of fentanyl.
Western countries need to start addressing this at home. Maybe death penalties to anyone who delivers drugs to minors for a starter.
It is more popular to target suppliers in foreign lands.
Ray, stick to international politics, Paleo-con style, where you have some experience. You have none in the prevention of substance abuse other than the use of some obvious talking points grounded in various levels of reality. I appreciate your genuine concern.
DeleteIntervention, interdiction and prevention - primary, secondary and tertiary tactics and strategies, are all absolutely necessary.
Trumps new aggressive approach to interdiction is just one piece, but it’s a valuable one.
I’ve walked the walk.
It’s like the NFL.
There is a lot of moving parts to a good football team and as long as the Eagles can’t put it all together, consistently, they will remain an iffy proposition.
Ultimately you’re barking up the right tree, as long as there is one user there’s going to be one dealer and one supplier.
Yes, there is always going to be one user.
Human beings have an innate desire to occasionally change their consciousness with some chemical or other and have applied phenomenal creativity to the task over time.
What research and experience has taught us is that high risk individuals in healthy low risk communities are at lower risk than average risk individuals in high risk, unhealthy communities.
So we all do what we can to provide a healthy, safe, and secure environment for all our children, and carry on.
People of good will will have honest disagreements on the allocation of resources.
Of course we provide treatment using best practices.
As for drug smugglers on the open seas?
Send them to Davy Jones locker. It’s a small piece of the big picture but it makes a point that can’t be ignored.
Forward!
Every time the subject of the ongoing, useless, and destructive "Drug War" comes up all I can think of is the complete waste of my tax dollars because of the desire by those who could care less about the welfare of our citizens and who care more about the power they can maintain. It has been shown time and again that for every dollar spent on education and positive treatment it has twice the effect of the money spent on law enforcement and imprisonment, with the U.S having the largest portion of its population incarcerated in the world. Small wonder when we have for-profit prison systems in place along with those who have strived for political and monetary power ever since the failure of the prohibition of alcohol and found it's replacement in the "Drug War".
ReplyDeleteSome examples of countries who have found that helping their citizens as opposed to making "war" on them:
"Heroin-Assisted Treatment (HAT) Schemes: The UK has implemented highly successful, limited-scale heroin prescription (HAT) schemes in places like Middlesbrough and Glasgow. These medical, rather than legal, interventions have been linked to significant drops in crime and homelessness among participants because they remove the need to commit crime to fund an illicit habit.
Evidence on Decriminalization Generally: International evidence, particularly from Portugal where all drugs were decriminalized for personal use in 2001, generally suggests that decriminalization does not increase drug use prevalence and can lead to a decrease in drug-related deaths and crime, including reductions in robberies and new HIV diagnoses."
Seems to me that whether bombing suspected drug boats or threatening (sometime more than threatening) countries with invasion is more about diverting our attention from our other domestic problems and trying to achieve political power thru fear and hatred as opposed to actually helping our citizenry.